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201
Auch wenn der Thread die gestellte Frage nicht abschließend beantwortet, teilweise sehr interessant zu lesen - und erstaunlich sachlich (denn das Thema ist ja auch irgendwie Meb-related): What's wrong with Ryan Hall?
"What do you do, you just go out there and gambol about like a bunny?" - Sheldon Cooper

202
Derzeit ist dort ja alles unterste Schublade und ganz&gar nicht zum lachen, geschweige denn informativ. Auch Manliest names in the world ist mal wieder vom Niveau her gnadenlos schlecht, und besonders im verlinkten Artikel #2!

Nievaulos!

204
@SantaCruz: Ja, der hat mir auch gefallen, einer der Threads , wo man etwas über die Mentalität der Menschen abseits politischer Extreme lernen kann.

Hier sind 2 sehenswerte Videos mit Rob de Castella verlinkt: Anyone one recognize this 80's runner?
Auf YouTube würde man die selbständig nciht finden, weil mit japanischen Textattributen versehen.

206
Wieder mal einer der typischen vs-Threads:

Ein bizzares Szenario...
Let's say that you and the chimp are stuck in a 100 foot by 100 ft cage. The chimp is on one side of the cage, while you're on the opposite end. That said, which of these weapons would make you strong enough to kill a pissed off adult male chimp?

1.) Tazer
2.) Large rock (you pick the size and the weight)
3.) Baseball bat
4.) Brass knuckles and track spikes
5.) Kitchen knife
6.) Samurai sword
7.) Spear
8.) Bow and arrow
9.) Motorcycle
10.) .22 cal gun with only one bullet
... und - was ich an LRC so liebe - tatsächlich mehrere ernsthafte Antworten hier: Man with weapons vs. chimp - who would win in a fight to the death?
"What do you do, you just go out there and gambol about like a bunny?" - Sheldon Cooper

207
How do you lower threshold?
For practical purposes, your thresholds can be estimated with paces, e.g. aerobic threshold is marathon pace, and lactate threshold is 10 mile pace, or 1 hour pace. In your case, it may be more like 5:45 and 6:10.

These are not definitions of the thresholds, but simply practical estimations of the related effort. You do not need better estimates, or a definition, unless you are a scientist.

To improve these thresholds, you should first read the monster locked thread about effective ways to improve lactate threshold. No one will say anything important in this thread that hasn't been said there.

Otherwise, to improve your aerobic threshold, train for a marathon.

210
Große Fleißarbeit, alle Achtung:
Max HR: 211
Resting HR: 48
Age: 19

Here are some recommendations I found:
-Hadd: ``75%MHR = <158 for easy runs
-Hadd: states 145 as max for easy runs if your HR max %% 193.
-"Lydiard interpreted" by Hodge: '1/4 pace:' : 158-165, '1/2 pace': 166-173, '3/4 pace': 174-187.
-Daniels running formula: Easy: 137-166, Marathon: 167-184, Threshold: 185-194, Intervals & Repetitions > 194
-Maffetone suggests a maximum aerobic function heart rate of 161
-Low heart rate groups suggest ``70% = <148
-van Aaken states that anything %% 150 adds nothing to human development if I recall correctly.
-Parker suggests ``70%HRR which is <162
-Runningforfitness site: Recovery: 150-165, Easy: 166-171, Steady state: 173-179, Tempo: 180-187, Interval: %%87
-Zoladz: Recovery: 155-164, easy: 165-174, moderate: 175-184, tempo: 185-194, interval: >194
-Brianmac: Recovery: 126-147, Aerobic: 148-168, Anaerobic: 169-188, Red line: 190+
-Sportscoach: Easy: 137-158, Long run: 159-179, Threshold: 180-199, Interval: 199+
-Runnersworld: Easy:150-172, Moderate: 173-187, Hard: 188-202.
Heart rate zone recommendations are not consistent. Which do I use?


Und weiter unten im Thread wird zitiert:
Some would say I run too easy on my easy days. Of course, many of the same people say I run too hard on my hard days, run too much in general, run excessively long marathon-pace runs, and don't drink enough gecko urine or eat enough encapsulated hippo snot. All I have to back up my methods, of course, are half-marathon and marathon times that continue to drop sharply even after seventeen years of competitive running.
Applaus!

213
Mal wieder Lydiard-efforts: Lydiard quiestion relating efford , v.a. der Beitrag von Tinman Lydiard quiestion relating efford
Lydiard adapted the Effort Tables of Gosta Holmer. *Holmer developed the table before WWII. It goes like this:

For any given distance,

Full effort = 100% speed
7/8th effort = 97.5% speed
3/4th effort = 95% speed
1/2 effort = 92.5% speed
1/4th effort = 90% speed
-------------------------------------------
Example:

A 4:00 miler wanting to run 440 repeats:

Effort Speed Per 440 yds
Full 100% 60 sec.
7/8 97.5% 61.5 sec.
3/4 95% 63 sec.
1/2 92.5% 66 sec.
1/4 90% 69 sec.
------------------------------------------
Remember, the co-author of Lydiard's books was Garth Gilmour, who knew Holmer's methods well.

217
cpr hat geschrieben:Allein die Fragestellung ist schon aussagekräftig genug und verdient Hervorhebung: Q for Renato Canova, Aerobic House - Gradual or Quick Mileage increase?
"an athlete needs to build up their aerobic house for about ten years to help them reach their full potential"

Goil. Bzw. das sage ich ja immer...

Und da wundert sich hier jemand im Forum, wenn man auch nach sechs Laufjahren noch eine PB schafft. :zwinker2:
"If you want to become a better runner, you have to run more often. It is that easy." - Tom Fleming

218
Aus Fukuoka All-Time Top-20, ein toller Beitrag über Takeyuki Nakayama:
He was, you might say, a blue color runner. Unlike runners like Seko or perhaps anybody else, who was a good runner in high school and went on to a corporate team; he was from a very small remote village and, although a decent runner, never been "recruited" to a corporate team. That was a big chip on his shoulder. He had to work at a train station for a couple of years, cleaning the public bathroom there, drunk businessmen puking all over the place and all that... All his training was done in the total darkness during that time but he trained very hard because of one goal in mind--to be a good runner. He won Nagoya City 30k race to be recognized by the late coach Sato at Daie corp team. I believe he ran Fukuoka in 82 or 83 but not with much promise. It was, I believe, 1984 Fukuoka; post LA Olympics and none of the big names (from Japan) were running. A young East German was the favorite along with Ikangaa. Then this tall figure with Afro perm hair was running along side. He ended up winning prestegious Fukuoka in 2:10 something. Not a bad time either. Then came Hiroshima World Cup marathon in the spring of 1985. Soh brothers were running and Nakayama, though Fukuoka champ from previous year, was just one of the runners. The race turned out to be a neck-to-neck battle between Nakayama and Djibuti's Salah. I was there, watching the race at a coffee shop with Australia's Pat Clohessy and we couldn't figure out who the heck this Japanse was. As we rushed to the stadium to watch the finish, there was an excitement that these two were very close to breakig then-Jonesie's world record of 2:08:05. Salah took off coming into the stadium and coasted in the second fastest time in history (I think it was something like 2:08:10) with Nakayama breaking Seko's national record with 2:08:15. Very exciting race.

87 Fukuoka was an epic race. Nakayama was mad, going into that race. Nakayama had run several 2:08s in a row, which was unheard of at the time (something like one in Beijing and another one in Korea or something). He also broke Seko's 10000m national record by 10 seconds or something and he definitely was THE huge threat to Prince Seko who was the prime example of "white color" elite--high school middle distance star, Waseda university standout, and S&B elite runner. His big chip in the shoulder was actually working well for him; he had pretty much single-mind goal and that is to crash all Seko's record and Seko himself. Federation picked Fukuoka to be THE Olympic Trial; then came the news that Seko was injured. All of a sudden they decided to include Lake Biwa to be the second Trial race. Nakayama didn't like that at all. Nakayama left the famous quote: "If Seko wanted to go to the Olympics, he should crawl to Fukuoka!"

The race day was with freezing rain. Temp was probably no higher than 40F. You could see runner's breath. Mad Nakayama took off from the gun--he wanted to show the world that he was so much better than Seko. Prior to that race, Shorter ran the first 5k in 14:36 in 1973 Fukuoka and that was the fastest opening 5. Nakayama did 14:30 and the condition was far from ideal for such an opening. The last 10k, he was bearly hanging onto it; his arms and legs were freezing and getting numb. I believe the guy who finished second, Shintaku, was actually closing in the final 5k (Seko's teammate). Many believed, had it been run in more ideal condition and had he paced himself, he would have run 2:06 that day.

His unfortunate situation was; he was too much of a lebel and he just didn't have more charismatic coach/mentor. He was instired by his own rage to force public to recognize him. Of course, that's what made him such a great runner; but had he been guided a bit more sensibly, he could have been running 2:06 or even 2:05 when people were bearly imagining 2:07 marathon. He was that good. Going into Seoul Olympic, he was already injured. It was a miracle that he finished 4th. Of course, his racing style was very different--he always did well when he took off and controlled the race from the front. The opening of Seoul was something like 15:50. It just wasn't his race. In 1991 Tokyo WC, he was in a too good of shape that he over-trained. He looked waaaaaay too skinny going into the race. Of course, just like Takahashi in 2003 Tokyo marathon, he ran out of gas and retired. After that, it was Taniguchi (who won 91 WC) and Morishita's era. It showed somewhat "soft" side of Nakayama when Morishita (I believe it was his first marathon) won Tokyo marathon before Barcelona. Nakayama was leading and then Morishita came up from behind. As Morishita passed Nakayama, he patted on his back and urged him on. Some experts had pointed out that his "fire" was gone. As Morishita battled it out with Wong for the silber medal in Barcelona, Nakayama quietly took 4th place, bearly missig it by steps to the German guy.

Nakayama was what some called "spring" runner. His style of getting up on his toes and run te entire 42km, besides Bill Rodgers, was quite unheard of even today. By 1992, ASICS's shoe-maker, Mimura, said that Nakayama came to him and asked for special shoes with extra cushion. He said then that he knew Nakayama's era was finished. He was losing that spring. Adidas was trying to get him to wear their shoes in early 1990s. I was talking to the guy who was working on that project and saw Nakayama's training shoes. There was not much wear sign at all on his heel; it was all in the fore-part of the shoes. He was a typical "toe-runner" just like Shorter or Rodgers. Had they had today's rabbitting, to have 4 or 5 runners to guard him and pace him through at more sensible (or "sane") 15:00 splits, I have no doubt, he would have run 2:05 back in 1980s.

He coached a collge team for a while but didn't do much. Then he now coaches a high school team. I think he is doing probably doing a better job developing a character than a fine runner; which might suit better for a high school coach, as an educator. His son is running for some high school and doing well but not exceptional. Along with his character and great talent, he was known with his Afro perm and squeeky high-voice. Far from politically-correct, no-nonesence type of a guy; but actually quite a nice guy. Maybe he did lose that "fire" and that sort of "rounded" him up.
"What do you do, you just go out there and gambol about like a bunny?" - Sheldon Cooper

222
Den Thread müsste man in die Lauf-Foren verschieben, hier entgeht er mir dauernd, weil ich OT nicht im Filter habe. Ist doch eigentlich auch ein Laufthema und nicht off topic, oder? Gibt eh derzeit so wenig lesenswerte Threads, so dass ich oftmals Abends den Tab schließe, ohne einen Thread betrachtet zu haben..

223
Ich hab den abonniert, mit mitternächtlicher Benachrichtigung.

224
&quot hat geschrieben:If you think about every different speed in training as a different mean of training, you understand that there are several means of training to put together. In my phylosophy, a difference of 20" per km during long run, or of 10" > 5" per km during intervals, are different means of training.

So, for example, we can have this types of sessions (athlete of 14' in 5000m) :

1- Rigeneration (slow run, slower than 4' /km)

2- Long slow run (1 hr 30' till 2 hr) at 4'/3'40" per km

3- Long moderate run (1 hr till 1 hr 30') at 3'40" / 3'25"

4- Long fast run (45' till 1 hr 10') at 3'25" / 3'10"

5- Medium fast run (30' till 45') at 3'10" / 3'

6- Short fast run (20' till 30') at 2'55" / 3'05"

7- Long Intervals (3000 / 2000m) at 2'50" / 3'

8- Medium intervals (1000 / 2000m) at 2'45" / 2'55"

9- Short intervals (600 / 1000m) at 2'30" (600) / 2'45"

10- Speed endurance (400 / 600m) at 2'20" / 2'35"

11- Speed (150 - 300m) fast at 90-95% of max speed

12- Overspeed (60 - 200m) at max intensity

13- Sprint uphill

14- Mixed Fartlek

15- Circuits for strength endurance


How you can see, it's not possible to put all these types of training in a microcycle, if the microcycle is shorter than 1 month. So, I prefer to have specific periods between one competition and the next one, when I'm far from the final target, using the competitions like training, but planning the training according the period and the competition, not facused but in any case interesting, that the athletes go to run.

In other worlds, because athletes are professional and from their results during the season depend how much they can earn, not only from ONE result, I need to put together the necessity to last at 90% of the best shape for long time, and the necessity to reach the peak of 100% for the most important day of the year. Don't forget that, if we speak about African athletes, they don't have any Federation paying for their training : no salary, no support, the only source of money are the competitions, and we must organise their activity in order to follow the real situation.

Question for Renato Canova on long runs under the threshhold


&quot hat geschrieben:the real difference between the system of Lydiard, when athletics was different because there were no 2 periodizations and the seasons were very much shorter, and the athletic of today. Who understand the athletics of today, never allows the athletes to lose what they were able to build during the season. Of course, during winter the quality goes a little down, but not too much.

&quot hat geschrieben: The problem is that in our world nobody has the patience to build the body and mind of an athlete. And to sacrifice that you don't have the best results in first few years. Everybody wants to be the best in one month, and that is not possible.

231
Chri.S hat geschrieben:Gotcher und McMillan bewegen gerade.

Why are marathoners doing 200m repeats?
Interessant ist vor allem die zitierte Mail von Gotcher. Danke!

(Lese übrigens sehr interessiert deinen Blog, insbes. weil du die Einheiten gut beschreibst und bei der Bewertung ein klares Fazit ziehst.)

Grüße,
3fach
Bild

Some say there's no magic formula. I say there is. It's just that the magic is different for everyone. Keith Dowling

232
3fach hat geschrieben: (Lese übrigens sehr interessiert deinen Blog, insbes. weil du die Einheiten gut beschreibst und bei der Bewertung ein klares Fazit ziehst.)
Danke, hört man gerne!

234
cpr hat geschrieben: McMillan über "was er 2010 anders probieren will" Running Times Magazine: Training Tweaks for 2010
Danke für den Link!

Bin ich der einzige, der den Text nicht lesen kann, weil sich die human kinetics Werbung da drüber legt? Auf jeden Fall immer wieder gut, was McMillan schreibt.
Sein Trainingsplan würde mich echt mal reizen.

236
Schwabenblitz hat geschrieben: PS.: Was siehst Du wenn Du auf PRINT (Druckansicht) drückst :)
Sieht gleich viel besser aus, danke!

Chris

238
runner39 wrote:can you post a few examples of the different paces that can be used in alot of different ways for 5k/10k

Here's a selection of possibilities, working various aspects of fitness:

800 pace:
6-10 x 80-100m strides with 100m jog rest, either during warmup for a workout or after an easy run when you feel fresh
2 x 6 x 300 with 2:00 standing, mile jog between sets

mile pace:
8 x 400 with 200m slow jog rest
8-10 x 400 with 3:00 standing rest
2 x 6 x 300 with 100m slow jog, 800 between sets

3k pace:
8 x 600 with 200m slow jog
6 x 800 with 200m slow jog
5 x 1000 with 3-4:00 standing rest

5k pace:
5 x 1000 with 200m slow jog
4 x 1200 with 200m slow jog
3 x 1500 with 3:00 standing rest

10k pace:
2 x 10-12 x 400 with 100 slow jog, 800 between sets
25 x 400 with 100 slow jog
10 x 1000 with 200 slow jog
5 x 2000 with 400 slow jog
3 x 3000 with 800 slow jog

HM pace:
25 x 400 with 100 slow jog
8 x 1000 with 200 slow jog
2 x 5k with 800 slow jog
4 x 3k with 800 slow jog
6-8 x 2k with 200-400 slow jog

M pace:
4 x 3k
3 x 4k
3 x 5k
2 x 8k
4 x 5k
2 x 10k
20k

M pace plus 20-40 secs/mile:
10k
16k
etc....

Note the workouts as listed are shown in rough order of difficulty, more or less.
Ran 36:30 10K... need some advice on training paces


This concept of maximizing overall power output by limiting early power output is easy to demonstrate by the power output cranks used by cyclists. If they produce 900-1000 watts in the first 2 seconds, they struggle to reach 450-500 watts in short reps, but if they reduce the acceleration to 650-700 watts, they can maintain a high overall power output.
Aerobic Threshhold Training
2010 Training Tweaks, Part 2
No fear + hills and mileage to manage peaking
By Greg McMillan, M.S.
Running Times Magazine: 2010 Training Tweaks, Part 2


Das hier hat mich angesprochen, nachdem ich die Langlaufski beiseite gestellt hab:
Workouts to Synchronize Your Legs and Lungs
Early season work can cause problems if you aren't prepared for it
By Roy Benson
As featured in the March 2010 issue of Running Times Magazine
print mail

Calling all outdoor track runners who have been on the swimming, wrestling, volleyball or basketball teams
Running Times Magazine: Workouts to Synchronize Your Legs and Lungs
Gesperrt

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